Male/Female West/East. When Cultures Clash.

Being aware that the site is having visitors following a discussion on the BBC Newsnight site about Islam and female attitudes. I probably do need to write a post about it at some point. But at the moment I have a tremendous work load with related issues of our core project the stabilisation of planetary ecological systems.

In order to establish a sustainable future for all life on this planet. All people without division and all animals and plants. I feel it is important to know as much as people wish to contribute.

This is a BBC Newsnight blog thread which seemed to touch on and weave around and through the Burqa debate (however it is spelt).

This is a post from the site Aquol about female Muslim body hair removal and other things.

I will construct an article. But it is more important to try and get some communication and understanding. Please feel free to leave a comment here and even enter into a dialogue with other visitors.

I’ll add to this post as ideas evolve.

As-Salamu Alaykum


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  1. #1 by ecolizzy on June 26, 2009 - 2:36 pm

    Roger that is a very interesting site you have there. Aquol. Unfortunately I’m pushed for time too and have only read some, will return to it though!

    My only comment so far, why won’t people leave nature alone? And a beautician I know said 75% of their custom was hair removal somewhere on a womans body!!! liz

    • #2 by celticlion on June 26, 2009 - 6:04 pm

      Yes I put it up last night so people could get another perspective. I didn’t understand west surrey girl ‘having a go’ when I am reading stuff like this and making it available on my site.

      I am pushed for time as well at this moment. later

  2. #3 by earwicga on June 28, 2009 - 11:30 pm

    Thanks for posting an Aqoul link – what an interesting site!

    • #4 by celticlion on June 30, 2009 - 9:49 pm

      I just thought we needed a post on somethng related to all the Burka, Muslim female debate which is going on. The site seemed interesting as it gave another persective on things.

  3. #5 by earwicga on June 28, 2009 - 11:31 pm

    And as for the article – one word, hygiene.

  4. #6 by ecolizzy on June 30, 2009 - 2:14 pm

    Sorry earwicga, I can’t agree with you. Why is hair not hygienic? Don’t you wash the hair on your head? So what’s wrong with any other hair washing? I never shave my armpits, my daughter thinks I’m disgusting, but I don’t care. It’s much more comfortable to have the hair there instead of sticky armpits, which when they perspire are wet! I don’t think I smell, I’m sure the same daughter would shout at me if I did!

    If all the money wasted on womens body products were stopped, I don’t think the world would collapse! I think women are fooled all the time into wasting money on things they are told they need, but in fact don’t. Just imagine if for some reason, say natural material availability, none of this stuff was available. What would you do then?

    • #7 by celticlion on June 30, 2009 - 10:08 pm

      not sure whether earwicga was referring to culturally, in terms of scarcity of water resources in hot climates. Many years ago I had a girlfriend who had lived an worked in Amsterdam. She never shaved. So immaterial to me.

      As I’ve never shaved apart from my face I don’t know the difference. With regard to people saying black Burkas being used to subjugate women. I normally wear black vests while working. So I tried a white one. The black one is definitely more comfortable. The sweat evaporates easier and I don’t end up in a sticky mess. The things I do for the Newsnight Blog. It has been overcast here all over the weekend. Sometimes slight showers. But hot so the humidity has been really high

  5. #8 by ecolizzy on June 30, 2009 - 10:24 pm

    Yes Roger it will be interesting to hear what earwicga says. As regards hair removal, I suppose I’ve always been more european in outlook, a lot of them don’t remove hair. It seems to be an american thing, so they can sell you something! I notice the muslim women do it very simply, threading or waxing, so products readily available.

    On Radio 4 today I heard a man, sorry don’t know what profession, talking about staying cool. He said all the things you did on NN, including wearing black! : )

    • #9 by celticlion on June 30, 2009 - 11:37 pm

      That’s good about the black thing. Thanks. I was sure black wasn’t ‘just to ‘punish women’ New Fazer seemed to be following what I was saying as well. Oh Pre Raphelites on TV, got to go and watch that.

  6. #10 by earwicga on July 3, 2009 - 11:05 pm

    Sorry, I forgot to come back and comment. Have read loads of the Aquol – it is a shame that it is no longer being posted on regularly – I especially like Eerie’s posts, but she hasn’t posted for a long time.

    As for this discussion, I meant that the practice has come from good hygeine in a hot climate – as many cultural and religious practices do. Within Islam ‘removing unwanted hair from the body is an act of fitrah’ as explained slightly in this link: I’m sure there are much better sites than this but it is late and I am tired.

    Lizzy, I’m not sure how you jumped to the fact that this was connected to selling women’s body products? And I’m also not sure that the Americans are to blame for women buying these products either.

    And yes Roger, water is a very important factor.

    • #11 by celticlion on July 4, 2009 - 10:34 pm

      Thanks for the comment. I have so much on, I am like a butterfly and I jump from here to there. If I find something I have a scan. Then try and relate to it. I have been posting on the BBC Newsnight blog. Connections that make rational sense in my head. But perhaps not to others. Most of all I am an ecologist which is about the connections between all ‘things’.

      I can understand a bit what Ecolizzy says from my own perspective. I have a Desperate Dan of beard growth. I can rub down rusty steel 10 hours after I shave. I see all these shaving products for men. But I shave with just soap and hot water. As long as the razor is sharp.

      There will be very few men who can grow a beard as quickly and as coarse as me. So I know the ‘shaving industry’ is rubbish. Hot water and a sharp blade (even singular) anything will do as the lubricant.

      Why all this technology about shaving you closer. 3 blades 5 blades rubbish. Any sharp blade, hot water and ordinary soap will shave you close. You can only shave to the level of the skin or just below. The heat lifts the beard. So it falls back below skin level. So it doesn’t matter.

      Glad you enjoyed the link. If you or Ecolizzy want to do a summation from your perspective email me and I will put it as a post.

    • #12 by celticlion on July 4, 2009 - 10:38 pm


      Read your link. Different from Rastafarian? So why do many Muslims have long(ish) hair?

  7. #13 by earwicga on July 4, 2009 - 11:47 pm

    I don’t know, I’m not Muslim. Rastafarianism is a much newer ‘religion’ than Islam so practices are bound to be different.

    • #14 by celticlion on July 5, 2009 - 1:04 am

      Sometimes there is s so much disparity between religions, on the details, perhaps it’s best to go your own way.

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